Post by lisssilverwing on Feb 22, 2013 14:50:34 GMT -5
im not sure if any of you studied islam a bit or read the koran . id love if i'd get a more pertinent answer to this question , than the usual "islam is bad" kind of answer that most of the so called christians basically reply(on a funny note attitude on islam doesnt really differ from the attitude the church denomination i was bought up in - sort of lol - has bout speaking in tongues - they say it's satanic lol - and most of the other denominations are reguarded as cults and sects and all that. ). my question is why are some people that are people that love God and read bible and all that . pray .and their relationship with God is very special, are drawn to islam ? i have a friend in this position and i can tell that it's not about being deceived. im talking about someone who does love Christ and God with all their heart and who wouldn't take the decision of telling everyone they gonna live as muslim from now on without asking God's will first... it bugs me and it puzzles me and it's been quite a big conflict in my heart when this friend told me this . i was angry and couldn't understand. still can't and this is someone who has profetic dreams and all that not someone who doesn't know what and who God is and can easily be drawn to this and that. . so i wonder if there's a logic to all this. noticed many muslims do study bible as well ...and wonder if we should study the Koran as well ...
Denominations can be confused; they come from men. Our authority is not this church or that church. Our authority is the Holy Bible and the Holy Spirit, which coming from Christ cannot disagree with the word. Logos and Rhema can only line up. So if we look at John 14:6 we can see that it is only through Christ that we are saved. Christianity is exclusive but Jesus and not doctrine is 'the way'. Of course some will come along and try to muddy the waters - they are prophesied. When we read the Bible we see that our faith is clearly supernatural and that spiritual warfare is a real thing, going on at the time of Jesus as it is now. Their are many voices out there and we must become discerning as to the origin. Should we settle down and read the Quran? I have, I need to for my job, but it is not straight forward. We need to understand abrogation and the chronology of the Meccan and Medinan Surah. In short you will find it rambling, contradictory and at times disturbing. You will also need to understand differences in culture and language. The Quran is the word of Allah revealed to Mohammed (how discerning was he?) but only when we realise that Mohammed is revered as the perfect man do we see the importance of the ahadith, particularly Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. When you have got to the end of Surah 9 you will clearly understand that the origin of Islam is from a different spirit. Does this mean that Muslims are bad or evil? No, I live and work among Muslims. Most of them are lovely people. Tomorrow I am giving 4 Muslims a lift to our church. Like many Christians their knowledge of their own religion is usually very sketchy; discouraged from reading translations most do not read (understand) Arabic - only recite the sounds and if they do would struggle with 7th century Arabic as we would with medieval English. I feel deep compassion for your friend. She is putting herself under legalism, worse still, legalism that is not godly. So at the risk of being non-pc I shall state that most Muslims are nice people. Islam is a religion that encourages people, from the Quran and ahadith, to wipe out people of other faiths, exemplified by it's prophet. Please look up some of the references I have put up in my posts or read the first 9 Surah for yourself and then decide for yourself. To be a Christian is to risk being judged as a bigot by the world. So be it. I am judged by my Lord. I have Muslim friends, have studied their religion. I try to convert Muslims to Christianity. I love Muslims and pray for them. At the same time many Muslims believe I am wrong and have tried to convert me and cause problems for me. Muslims who study the Bible are skating on thin ice. Their teaching is that it is corrupted. They risk being ostracized here and in theocracies being imprisoned or death.
Post by lisssilverwing on Feb 23, 2013 15:05:25 GMT -5
i think there's many things that deceive us. one of them is radical difference between western way of life and the way of life from that area. israel and also surrounding areas.. muslim ways also ..and i think somewhere in history something happened that caused both muslims to be deceived and also christians.... i don't feel like calling myself a christian ... just a name associated with too much dirt and filth and is not defining my relationship with Christ and God ... can't help remembering though that there were 3 kings and at least one of them a muslim that bowed down to Christ when He was born into this world . also think that some things muslims kept in their traditions were lost from christian. not sure what but by the nature of their more say conservative ways that might be somewhere ... that's just a feeling of mine and can't say exactly what.. but what i can say for sure is the more i study and the more i pray and the more i get closer to God , the more obvious lies we've been fed up and that we were brought up with , appear to me ....
The 3 kings would have been Pagans by upbringing acting by divine influence. The first Muslims were from about 610 AD and just a handful for a dozen years until the raiding on Jewish villages bought sex slaves and war booty, swelling the ranks of the faithful to 10,000 in just two years. Muslims, of course, believe that Islam was the religion of Judaism and Christianity 40:53-4 which we rejected and corrupted so they are the pure religion restored. The Quran claims the Jews call Ezra the son of God and Christians have companions for Allah (God the Father), Isa (God the Son) and Miriam (God the Mother). So Mohammed was probably confused by what he heard and spent time with heretical Christians or perhaps Allah knows more than us! The Church at the site of Christ's birth in Bethlehem was the only Christian site not to be destroyed in the 7th Century because the painting of the three kings was taken to be a sign (by their clothing and appearance) that Muslims were revered there. It tied in with their belief that the early Christians were actually proto-Muslims. They would believe that proto-Muslims went to visit Isa the prophet, who spoke eloquently from birth, born of a virgin and without sin, called Christ by name but most definately not the son of God or Christ by nature.
Post by buildthefarm on Mar 10, 2013 14:13:17 GMT -5
i have my own POV on this subject and ive learned alot about islam the last few years so heres my take. you know how there is a counterfeit for all the good things of God? best i can tell islam is the devils counterfeit religion. the reason muslims know things from the Bible is because they originate from ishmael, abrahams son by hagar. they claim God and Jesus and many of the prophets. there is even a prophecy in islam that at the end of the world Jesus will come back. sounds good so far right? then you dig in, that prophecy says that Jesus will come back and admit that allah is God and that mohammed is Gods prophet and that islam is the right religion and that a false Jesus will come down out of the sky and all muslims will make war against him....sound familiar? this prophetic book reads directly opposite of revelations. i havent read the whole koran but ive read enough bits and pieces to know something else ineresting about islam. there are 2 sides within it. a religion of peace and a religion that plans to rules the entire world with an iron fist. have you ever heard of a 'spirit of religion'? try on these rules... pray east 5 times a day, pray exact prayer that you are told, make a specific journey in your lifetime and so on. do this do that dont think about just do it...'spirit of religion'. but then all the good you are supposed to do for those in your 'religion' you are to dismiss, over run, subject, and kill people who are not in your 'religion'. thats the other side, you see you will be blessed if you do the religion the way your told but if you want extra blessing you can attack and kill those who oppose the 'religion'. if you dont want to kill anybody of course you dont have to and you can be perfectly good. thats why theres is so much confusion between radical and peaceful muslims. oh but wait theres more. mohammed actually recieved the inspiration for the koran "prophetically" right? meaning from a spirit. ok his spiritual experience was described as being in a cave and basically a dark cloud jumped on him, forced him to the ground, and he had claws digging in his chest. powerful right. ive had enough demonic attacks in my sleep to know thats a pretty accurate description of one. so the entire koran is demonically inspired but because of the power of it he thought it had to be God and because there was a large principality behind it and because it was part of the plan for the end times it kept gaining traction and didnt fissle out. then theres the history, from 600ish when islam came about they were at war quickly even while mohammed was still alive. prior to that the middle east had been evangelized by the apostles and from turkey to ethiopia was very Christian, then came the dark ages. why dont we have much history from then? well islam took over nations and killed Christians and Jews all over the middle east and africa for centuries and was attempting to take over the world. they had pirates out all over the world and many wars with european nations. thats why england ended up with such a spectacular navy, as well as spain, france, and so on. every country in europe was paying tribute to muslim nations to avoid being robbed at sea including at one point 20% of the entire budget of the US government. John Adams took that many, started a navy here and went and fought african muslims. it was our first and second foreign war. what about african slave trade or the discovery of the US you ask? well let me tell you. why did columbus need to find a new way to india? because they used to go through the middle east on land but they were no longer allowed to. hmm and 3 or 4 hundred heres later boom theres america the first nation founded on the knowledge of Jesus Christ. but slavery whaaa? well a part of islam is to kill or enslave people who are not with you right? and muslim attacked much of africa and took many slaves and sold them. thats why you didnt go buy russian slaves or australian slaves or korean slaves. there was some slave trade out of asia but the primary slave trade of the world was in fact in africa where islam was enslaving people and selling them at a pace unequalled anywhere on earth. i recommend studying islam if you are solid in your faith because they will play a big roll in end times and regardless of what happens we are still called to love people. we are not supposed to join them in their sin but to call them to repentance and to the knowledge of Christ, because God wishes for none to perish but all to come to the knowledge of Christ. sorry if i repeated anyone else's answer i didnt read them lol
Pretty much spot on. It makes for a disturbing study but is worth while. We have been lied to for so long but it is all there. It is a legalistic attempt take over God's message and pervert it by denying the divinity of Christ and the power of the cross. There are so many clues. Its almost as if satan is mocking those of us in the know.
Post by buildthefarm on Mar 11, 2013 20:25:41 GMT -5
you know there is actually a new book out called what every Christian needs to know about islam or something similar. im not sure if it just came out or is about to come out but it should be a helpful read for those looking to get up on the subject.
Post by Summerfieldgreen on Sept 19, 2013 19:53:05 GMT -5
I tried to read the Koran once. I have read the Bible many times. I put the Koran up and never went back to it simply because the text seemed fragmented and wasn't lucid reading. I have no desire whatsoever to debate anyone of their religion or beliefs. All I can say is that when I called out to the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, Jesus showed up. If you seek him, you will find him. I can feel him talking with me through his words. He stirs me through his words and his teaching.
It is good to begin the bible at the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. In time, the acts, the psalms, the proverbs then when ready, read the Old Testament. The Old Testament points to Jesus. The old customs are different and sometimes weird. I had to do a study on Moses and dive into deep teachings of the Tabernacle and the significance of all of the offerings at the Temple before I understood why Jesus died for me.
One of the best things you can do is invite the Holy Spirit to help explain things to you as you read. Your understanding will open.