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Post by CAT on Jun 18, 2014 22:10:48 GMT -5
"I've eliminated the possibility of eternal fire"
Wow, that's a pretty bold statement.
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Post by CAT on Jun 19, 2014 3:23:53 GMT -5
I am by no means trying to make a case for universalism, but a thought just occurred to me.... The tree of life. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever in sin, right? Genesis 3:22-24 "Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." Then in Revelation it says, "...To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life..." (2:7) and "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life..." (22:14) etc. So... those in hell will not partake of the tree of life, thus not live forever?  ?? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5
I am by no means trying to make a case for universalism, but a thought just occurred to me.... The tree of life. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden lest they eat of the tree of life and live forever in sin, right? Genesis 3:22-24 "Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." Then in Revelation it says, "...To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life..." (2:7) and "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life..." (22:14) etc. So... those in hell will not partake of the tree of life, thus not live forever? ?? Well that's the reason why I have been an Annihilationist (believing that death is the punishment) since October. If you look at it from the lake of fire (which is not hell by the way, if you read Revelations 20 it talks about hell being thrown into the lake of fire) being torturous, it HAS to be death. But the issue is, is it a place of torture or is it a place of testing and purification and that's what I'm eventually (probably after exams) going to do. |
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Post by Saltandlight007 on Jun 19, 2014 15:36:28 GMT -5
CAT, Interesting observations. Perhaps we should have had two separate threads: 'Universalism' and 'What Happens to the Unsaved' (especially considering that Universalists believe that no-one will be unsaved). Otherwise, it may be assumed by some that Universalism is being supported / accepted – when it isn't.
Jake, you know my findings / views on Universalism by now, so I'm not sure that there's anything left for me to say on the subject. To conclude though, it seems to me that Universalism is not Christianity, but is a potentially dangerous enemy - tricking people / 'tickling ears' (2 Timothy 4:3-4) by mixing a little doctrinal truth with a lot of significant doctrinal error (one of Satan's favourite tricks):
'I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naïve' (Romans 16: 17-18).
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Post by warrior on Jun 20, 2014 15:03:35 GMT -5
The book of Revelation is complex and can be taken more or less literally or spiritualised to mean loads of things by different people. Knowledge of ancient languages is not static and is not related solely to tense or definition. Idioms play a big part along with contextual knowledge of times, customs, people and places. Can a rogue lead others astray by making claims about Greek? Yes, look at the JWs who are shockingly biased in their transliteration of the Bible, promoting their Henotheistic lies. You can't even call it a translation; in places they change things, add things and even argue that phrases mean the exact opposite. Tens of millions have bought into these lies by being directed to look deeply into very selected minutia. When we look at the bigger picture, the nature of God, the teaching of Jesus, His sacrificial love, we can't help but get a more focused view.
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