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Post by CAT on Jul 30, 2014 0:38:52 GMT -5
Tony Miano, who used to work under Ray Comfort, posted an article on Facebook bashing Bethel and called them a demonic cult. Could you wise people who are in the know please tell me the truth?
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Post by Saltandlight007 on Jul 30, 2014 4:49:27 GMT -5
It's a difficult one for me too. 'We only in part' and humans are flawed, so I don't believe any Christian church is perfect. We should not judge and argue, but on the other hand we are told to rebuke others if we believe them to be in the wrong - according to Scripture. I love some of the bethel teaching and music, but there are some things which also do not sit well with me – yeah, it's a difficult one.
When a church is attempting to live according to biblical truth and is not blatantly sinning, criticism can become a matter of personal opinion / discernment (which can differ). But I personally don't think there is anything wrong with expressing that opinion as long as it's done with a humble / gracious attitude. Praying for one another is important too. And, perhaps the person / church receiving the criticism should also be open to receiving criticism graciously / humbly too – which can be difficult if a practice has been in place for a long time. Feelings can be unreliable – no?
It'll be interesting to hear other's thoughts on the matter.
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Post by hearingGod on Jul 30, 2014 11:59:08 GMT -5
hee hee... i don't really know what either teach, but i've got a comment....
i'm pretty sure the ray comfort crowds aren't pro the 'giftings are still going strong', but more of 'the gifts have passed away' thing... that of course still doesn't exempt a ministry from doing all things & the Lord saying 'I never knew you'.... but always something that stands out to me as moving in power & the giftings are sooo attacked (and people thinking they are doing some great thing for the Lord in the process).
So, one really has to dig on both sides of the fence in the fruit search. Sorry I don't fully know either, but a bone to chew on anyways.
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Post by buildthefarm on Jul 30, 2014 16:30:20 GMT -5
The work of the Holy Spirit in this age began at Pentecost when He came from the Father as promised by Christ (John 14:16-17; 15:26) to initiate and complete the building of the Body of Christ, which is His church (1 Corinthians 12:13). The broad scope of His divine activity includes convicting the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; glorifying the Lord Jesus Christ and transforming believers into the image of Christ (John 16:7-9; Acts 1:5; 2:4; Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Ephesians 2:22).
The Holy Spirit is the supernatural and sovereign Agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). The Holy Spirit also indwells, sanctifies, instructs, empowers them for service, and seals them unto the day of redemption (Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Ephesians 1:13).
The Holy Spirit is the divine Teacher, who guided the apostles and prophets into all truth as they committed to writing God’s revelation, the Bible. Every believer possesses the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit from the moment of salvation, and it is the duty of all those born of the Spirit to be filled with (controlled by) the Spirit (John 16:13; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 5:18; 2 Peter 1:19-21; 1 John 2:20, 27). The Holy Spirit administers spiritual gifts to the church. The Holy Spirit glorifies neither Himself nor His gifts by ostentatious displays, but He does glorify Christ by implementing His work of redeeming the lost and building up believers in the most holy faith (John 16:13-14; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 2 Corinthians 3:18).
this was in the tony miano statement of faith
Supernatural Ministry
Every believer is a supernatural minister of the gospel of power. All ministry flows from the prayer “Thy kingdom come... on earth as it is in heaven.” We equip and send the church to carry on the signs and wonders that followed Jesus.
that is in the bethel church about section. i think we have identified the difference of opinion.
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Post by CAT on Aug 4, 2014 4:27:34 GMT -5
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Post by hearingGod on Aug 4, 2014 7:37:55 GMT -5
can't view it... may have to be a friend to see it. what is it about?
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Post by CAT on Aug 4, 2014 22:24:45 GMT -5
Seems to have been removed. Found the same one:
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Post by CAT on Aug 5, 2014 1:37:41 GMT -5
This topic has become particularly important to me.
I recently became fb friends with a Japanese lady (in Japan) who also follows Torben and the Pioneer School teaching. (And here I assumed I was the only person in all of Japan watching his videos - haha!) This was pretty exciting for me to befriend someone like this in Japan. I told her abt my planned trip to Singapore to meet Torben and some days later she informed me she wanted to go too! And now she has her tickets! So cool!
Well, she seems to have a great amount of respect for Bill Johnson, Sr Pastor of Bethel. He came to Japan, to her church, I believe, for training and she has photos of herself with him. And she has posted his videos as well.
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Post by hearingGod on Aug 5, 2014 12:03:46 GMT -5
okie... is the issue & worry of kundalini in that people twitch and flinch? granted we can see in the vid that people are encouraged to share what they believe (prophetically) the Lord has shared w/ them, I dunno if this is a school or teaching environment...but everything spoken about the netherlands could be researched over time to see if any of that is coming to pass. as for twitching and flinching etc.... there are people out there that have it set in stone that being under the power of God you can absolutely 'control yourself' and if you can't you are false. but what is the presence of God? i did a lookie on the net... breezed thru it...didn't chew on it, but the activities & scriptures listed so you can continue seeking this out: peoplegetready.org/holy-spirit/manifestations-spirit-scripture/i have been overcome and rested in the spirit, cried uncontrollably, laughed, felt a seeming pulse that caused me to flinch a bit.... but most of that in large settings.... which i haven't been in, in a long time. so i can understand your reserve, cuz if you haven't been in a large group praising or whatever....it's true...when people get together powerful manifestations can be felt/happen. i daily feel His presence.... but not so overwhelmingly as it appears in the vid. but can it happen and be okay... if the fruit is okie... it just takes some testing. hard for us no knowing people personally to know a track record....not having been to redding to get a holy spirit confirmation within... but alas, we don't want to throw out the baby w/ the bathwater... so just pray, watch n' see is all we can do. one of the funniest things that happened to us in our home church is that for 3-4 weeks.... every time everyone laid hands on me, they would laugh uncontrollably. this was weird for me cuz i wasn't feeling anything special & wondering what the heck is going on, but it happened & i dunno what or why? my cup runneth over w/ joy, i guess & others pulled on it??? who knows, but we just rolled w/ it, cuz it didn't seem right to stifle an outpouring of joy. one of the most profound experiences i have had is God allowing me to experience a tiny crack of judgement. it was twice...it was in my dreams...the first time i couldn't even scream...the second time i woke up screaming in terror and for months after just even the thought of the experience brought a wave of terror. i hope to never have these again. you hear stories of people who have been shown hell and it being life-changing memorable.... well His judgement... arrestingly terrible. undone is an understatement. i am grateful they were in my dreams, i could not imagine this during my waking hours. i guess i share this to bring that thought up again.... what is the presence of God? can we really control ourselves under the weight of however He shows up? (every knee shall bow) how good of an argument then is a pairing of kundalini w/ physical reactions? you don't have to dive in w/ that friend you made.... we are all to do only what He has us doing... so if the bill johnson thing is meaningful to her, great... but you don't have to go there. if she has questionable fruit, having set under this redding stuff... then there is an answer...but if she's got good fruit, then pick that answer. no one i know follows all the same stuff & even when i'm asked to look at something, i only do if i'm led, else i'd do nothing but hop around all day. somethings are okay to 'not know' and put on a backburner & some we are called to expose to put people back on the right path. just keep on praying & examining... the unsettling has a reason & it's just a few options.... it's bad (holy spirit nudging and trying to educate), OR it's not understood ('us'...if we are uncomfortable or don't know we will feel disquiet--the enemy can tag team w/ this too though, pushing it to his side by pummeling us w/ doubt etc), OR it's good & the accuser of the brethren is attacking something that's okay. so happy digging in on this one... knock & it will be opened up to you & apprec. you share what you learn to edu the rest cuz one asks but 10 wonder, LOL. |
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Post by CAT on Aug 5, 2014 22:06:14 GMT -5
HG, thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your wisdom with me. I don't doubt that the presence of the Holy Spirit can be so strong for someone that they are unable to stand up. And when I received the Holy Spirit, I did tremble. But ya, the stuff in that video just doesn't look like a beautiful outpouring of the Holy Spirit... to me. It was... disturbing. Like, the prophecies punctuated with loud noises. I think you are right - I do not need to dive into this topic with my friend. Keep my eyes open, continue to pray for discernment. But just today, she mentioned that she goes to a meeting sometimes whose leader is heavily influenced by the teachings of Bethel. I may not be able to avoid the topic completely.  But I will tiptoe around it. And I'll keep ya'll posted if there is anything to post. |
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Post by buildthefarm on Aug 7, 2014 21:36:50 GMT -5
i will also say this, it is very much punching above many peoples weight to prophecy over a nation. I'm not sure people understand how prophecy for nations works, but it would not surprise me a bit if a national ruling spirit got crossed by someone unauthorized to do so, and sent false spirits all over the room to disrupt all that. some of the odder stuff and the incorrect stuff could just be a retaliatory attack on the people trying to do a big thing with no understanding of what it even means to prophecy over a nation. that doesn't mean the people aren't sincere.
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Post by warrior on Aug 12, 2014 3:28:09 GMT -5
Can a house be divided against itself? Whose church is it anyway? Does God's word give any indication as to how we should rebuke; what is the purpose of rebuking? What limits are we told to put on God? Who are the teachers who fully comprehend God so that we can rely on them totally? What should I do if my brother has a speck in his eye? What did Jesus tell me to worry about? What did Jesus tell me to do?
These questions are rhetorical.
I can't help feeling that we are sometimes encouraged to overcomplicate and over intellectualise things by some 'church' leaders (deliberate oxymoron). Jesus is the Head of the Church. Elders are there to serve; they are not infallible demigods. It is our responsibility to focus on Jesus and not be pulled away by distractions. There will be no Pope, Bill Johnson or Tony Miano to answer for us. We will answer for ourselves or Jesus will answer for us. Jesus has given us some really simple straightforward things to do and He has told us how to do them. There is only one truth. Jesus is the Truth.
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Post by CAT on Jan 8, 2015 0:59:53 GMT -5
I'm going to Tokyo this evening to see/hear Bill Johnson. Bahaha!
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Post by CAT on Jan 8, 2015 20:07:27 GMT -5
I laugh at myself 'cause I've come a long way since July/August - hehe. And a dear friend helped me learn how to eat the meat and spit out the bones. BJ's message was excellent. And I got to see a fire in the people of Japan that I didn't know existed. So glad I got to go. Thanks to hubby for taking a half day off work so I could go. ![]()  |
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Post by buildthefarm on Jan 9, 2015 8:07:34 GMT -5
thats awesome! going to see that guy is the only reason ive ever considered visiting california lol, but i havent made it yet. but that is on my bucket list fo sho
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But I will tiptoe around it. 
