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Post by buildthefarm on Jun 21, 2014 22:11:06 GMT -5
I've heard many theories and there are many books on the subject of why people don't always get instantly healed when we pray for them. I've heard some say sin or unforgiveness and many other things in the heart of the person being prayed for may be to blame. I've heard others say that is a cop out, and really the person praying needs to increase faith. I'm starting to lean the direction of my own faith is the issue, and it is something that can be improved. and that Jesus healed every sickness and disease every time and He told His disciples to be like Him and do the same. so that left me still with questions. and was thinking of how to explain that to a person who hadn't thought it through much. then it hit me!! the prophet daniel!! he was fasting and waiting for an answer for 2 weeks to understand a dream he had. the angel told him the moment he began praying the angel headed his way. but he encountered warfare with the prince of persia. the ruling spirit who did not want any part of daniel having the answer God was sending. soon backup came and the message got through. but that took 2 weeks of fasting and praying by the prophet daniel, one of Gods personal favorite men of all time. what if he had quit in 3 hours? my point is while sometimes healing is instant, we have to remember that the enemy fights against it. what if it takes a month of constant prayer to get someone out of a wheel chair, or 2 months? what if the hindrance is simply the fight that the enemy is putting up to stop it from happening? to me this is the most logical explanation I've seen on the subject so i suspect its something God was teaching me:) is there anything about this that doesn't fit with the bible and peoples experiences both? seems to explain the whole thing to me.
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Post by gulfman on Jun 22, 2014 10:10:45 GMT -5
I´m reading a book called "Divine healing made simple", by Medic Praying - it was free on amazon. I started last night and read until 29% of the book. I´m really enjoying it. I think It mentions all those things you mention, plus many others that most of believers find difficult to practice. Maybe you can have a look.
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Post by Saltandlight007 on Jun 22, 2014 13:27:05 GMT -5
I agree that persevering prayer is important (and deeply Scriptural) and that there are many theories about why people are not healed. Perhaps there is no single answer that fits all?
It does seem that faith is required in some form though - which comes by hearing Scripture (Romans 10:17) and being convinced of it. Doubt hinders prayers (James 1: 6-7). Perhaps doubts hidden in our deepest subconscious also effects us unknowingly? But, I have known of both Christians who have prayed for healing and those being prayed for admitting to not having faith that healing would take place (not both at the same time though), but healing happened anyway. Jesus (who is perfect / had perfect faith himself) could not do miracles in his home town (Mark 6:5) - due to a general attitude of unbelief of others in that area.
Also, if praying with faith is not accompanied / followed by actions (James 2:17) - forgiveness, changing eating habits, etc., it may not work / be permanent. In theory, victory 'should' be easier for us than for those mentioned in the OT though – because of Christ and Holy Spirit.
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Post by hearingGod on Jun 23, 2014 9:41:53 GMT -5
it's something i've milled over the most in ministry. i mean, i was led to empower peeps via the route of self-deliverance.... which is the route of one looking for their own blockages. really a ministry of teaching people to be responsible, self examine & walk the talk.... it's really only for those that 'are' christian. but did Jesus do that, LOL? He healed first & people decided to follow or not. and He did so for AnYoNe w/ ears to hear. this is hard cuz there is good fruit & what i do has it's place in the body... but it's not exactly what Jesus was doing! and i wrote about that recently...tis y its so important to know our gifts & talents cuz we needa be 'okay' if we are called to give water at the well, or serve people for most of our lives while others do the Jesus thang 24/7. He's often shown me John the Baptist in my ministry... examine! repent!... and i sometimes wonder if my head will get chopped....LOL....but at the same time happy cuz He must increase & if i can turn more over to follow HIM... then I'm doing my job  the other nice thing is that while we may have a main gifting for hospitality or caring for ministers kids etc... we CAN operate from time to time in ALL the giftings... as He leads. we can also receive mantles from what we align w/ & more talents of the kingdom. recognizing that and being content is key. as per 'results' in prayer.....smith wigglesworth seemed to think faith was 'it'.... he'd make anyone w/ out it leave the room. from his writing, he sounded 'hopping mad' about people dragging faith down in a room! he could spot them a mile away & you could tell easily because he wrote the things the people would say--from out of the heart, the mouth speaks (... and this of course, you all kno i've picked up on and am sensitive to, if i've ever combed thru an email you've written.) ones 'faith' out plays anothers lack... if 2 or more are in agreement.... then smith telling faithless to leave so him & Jesus could be the 2 in agreement makes sense. if healing isn't happening... ya, we hafta b real about this... obedience.....i rememb. a story smith shared where Jesus told him to tell a bedridden, 300lb man to rise up and walk, but he admitted the lack of faith cuz he was looking at the situation & that a bedridden man for that long needed helped up.... and when he 'disobeyed' & got peeps to help the man up, nothing was happening....but after he repented and then told the man to get up, he arose, no problem. only doing what we see the Father doing.... it's a big 'key', a? we have to stand on the Word/truth/ in faith... this is the hard part....we don't always see/hear/have vision/word of knowledge etc. what the FAther is doing... that extra faith bonus to press on. but how blessed to cling in faith to the character and promise in the Word?! w/ ever growing relationship we WILL begin to hear & know what the Father is doing as we keep investing our faith in the truth. 'faith' is also a gifting a? so why some flow in it immediately w/ results even if they aren't the most seasoned of christians. just like the gift of tongues is faceted too. very deep well here...some good digging to go. |
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Post by Saltandlight007 on Jun 24, 2014 4:23:09 GMT -5
as per 'results' in prayer.....smith wigglesworth seemed to think faith was 'it'.... he'd make anyone w/ out it leave the room. from his writing, he sounded 'hopping mad' about people dragging faith down in a room! he could spot them a mile away & you could tell easily because he wrote the things the people would say--from out of the heart, the mouth speaks ou?
And yet, Wigglesworth's daughter was never healed of deafness – which troubled him (if I am not mistaken). |
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Post by hearingGod on Jun 24, 2014 10:27:06 GMT -5
i found it....
and i knew about the sciatia... because that was what i was healed from after reading his works and then praying.... so it was a really 'wow' sign for me from the Lord and in confirming the revelation i was pulling on from smith...
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there is 'confounding' shtuff in anyone's ministry & that's where asking 'is the anointing there? is the overall fruit good? how does it all stand next to the word?'.... have to strain out those crooked fingers that scream 'wine bibber' (btw, smiths house was next to a bar from what i've heard too, LOL), and see where God is working in it all.
there are things we just can't know.... things we have no business in judging.... you know i often wonder when i see stuff like that (smith non-healing) if God asked SOMEONE ELSE, to step out in faith and heal the minister or minister's family... and because of their (the called person) disobedience/failure to obey, the minister suffers. we, of course won't know until the pearly gates....cuz who would want to fess up on something like that?.... but i bring that up to chew on cuz there have been times where i needed spiritual warfare support & prayed & God would send me a person that wasn't so skilled but they showed up rt on key. i told them i believed God sent them, and that God wanted to raise them up... the reason they come to me in the first place is because of the good fruit... but when i ask them to trust me and go further they forget all the 'good', focus on fear.... chicken out & run away & God immediately send me another & they do the same. then by the 3rd person... i finally got a 'yes'... and they helped... learned something along the way & have gone onward & upward ever since. we all do this in 'areas' of our lives tho'...one person's drama isn't anothers, but He wants us alllll free so He'll always try to lift us from that thing.
isn't it funny... the first thing u think of is, 'oh, it's that thorn in the flesh'... cuz it's a nice answer, LOL.
easy to imagine people putting smith up on some pedestal... to be content to follow instead of take the talent of the kingdom & jump from it..... i think we all can see that happening every day. and i dunno evidence of how much he prayed.... if others actually did pray over him/his daughter etc.
theory, anyways.... i do think we are more of our 'brother's keeper' than we can know.
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Post by Saltandlight007 on Jun 25, 2014 4:02:48 GMT -5
I didn't know he said that – I like it though and can relate to the same myself!
From what I know, Wigglesworth never gave up / stopped praying for Alice, but it's his humble attitude (with his own painful ailments too) that impresses me the most, not the miracles on their own. Painful tests seem to better reveal the 'real fruit' of a person - Holy Spirit fruit that is (Gal 5;22-23), especially 'love' though (1 Cor 13:4-8) or it seems to have the potential to develop it – if we allow that. Otherwise, the opposite may to be revealed / developed; bitterness, defensiveness, self-preservation, etc.
That's why I've never understood critics who use this stuff as ammunition. Only God knows the whole truth.
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